Mary Poppins
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[edit] Blurb
The story of Mary Poppins, the quintessentially English and utterly magical children's nanny, is remarkable enough. She flew into the lives of the unsuspecting Banks family in a children's book that was instantly hailed as a classic, then became a household name when Julie Andrews stepped into the starring role in Walt Disney's hugely successful and equally classic film. Now she is a Broadway sensation all over again.
But the story of Mary Poppins's creator, as this first biography reveals, is just as unexpected and remarkable. The fabulous English nanny was conceived by an Australian, Pamela Lyndon Travers, who in 1924 came to London from Sydney as a journalist. She became involved with theosophy and traveled in the literary circles of W. B. Yeats and T. S. Eliot. Most famously, she clashed with the great convincer Walt Disney over the adaptation of the Mary Poppins books into film.
Travers, whom Disney accused of vanity for "thinking you [Travers] know more about Mary Poppins than I do," was as tart and opinionated as Julie Andrews's big-screen Mary Poppins was cheery and porcelain beautiful. "You've got the nose for it," Travers candidly assessed the star. Yet it was a love of mysticism and magic that shaped P. L. Travers's life as well as the character of Mary Poppins. The clipped, strict and ultimately mysterious nanny was the conception of someone who remained thoroughly inscrutable and enigmatic to the end of her ninety-six years.
"Who is P. L. Travers?" the American press inquired of this "unknown Englishwoman" whose creation resulting in Hollywood gold had won her international fame. Valerie Lawson's illuminating biography, Mary Poppins, She Wrote, provides the first and only glimpse into the mind of a writer who fervently believed that "Everyday life is the miracle."
[edit] View from Nowhere
[edit] Other Views from Nowhere
Mary Poppins and the Puzzles of Paradox
By Helene Vachet
Mary Poppins is probably the most famous nanny in history. She arrives out of nowhere to apply for a position with the Banks family and is hired on the spot, without references. Mary Poppins is able to evoke in others a recognition of truth, especially in Mr. Banks, who says that she paid them a signal honor by coming to their house. The lesson Mary Poppins teaches is to use our intuition, to look within, to find the truth. This theme continues throughout the stories, particularly in adventures involving the two older Banks children, Michael and Jane. Mary Poppins almost always denies that anything unusual happened, in order to make them think. Likewise, each adventure has an encrypted, paradoxical message to make the reader look within.
The Mystery of Expectations
Going upstairs to see the nursery, Mary Poppins rides up the banister of the staircase, going against gravity. Only the children notice this phenomenon; Mrs. Banks does not. What is the meaning of riding up the banister? Obviously, this establishes Mary Poppins as a person with magical powers and is a preview of the greater magic to follow.
Once in the nursery, Mary Poppins begins to unpack. The children have looked in her suitcase and found it empty, but Mary Poppins takes out “seven flannel nightgowns, a pair of boots, a set of dominoes, two bathing-caps, a postcard album and, last of all, came a folding camp bedstead complete with blankets and an eiderdown, all to the wonder and amazement of the children.” This story illustrates the paradox of expectations: When you expect big things to happen, you get nothing; but when you expect nothing, you get everything. Mary Poppins herself, presents a paradox. Her looks are unremarkable. She is certainly no beauty; she is plain like a Dutch doll. Her role in life is also not powerful—she is a nanny. Caroline Myss, noted medical intuitive, calls paradox the language of the Divine. She says in Spiritual Power, Spiritual Practice that “small is big and big is small—Heaven speaks to us in paradox.”
Pamela L. Travers, the Discoverer of Mary Poppins
My encounter with Mary Poppins began with the Disney movie starring the truly magical Julie Andrews as Mary Poppins, Dick Van Dyke as Bert the chimney sweep, Glynis Johns as Mrs. Banks, and the great David Tomlinson as Mr. Banks. The movie was delightful, but gave no inkling of the real magic of the universe embedded in the stories. To find that mystery, one has to read the books by Pamela L. Travers. Yet somehow Mary Poppins was not part of my childhood reading. It was not until 2002, when I was asked to review A Lively Oracle: A Centennial Celebration of P. L. Travers, Creator of Mary Poppins, that I became intrigued with the character of Mary Poppins and with Travers, who said that she didn’t create Mary Poppins, but discovered her.
Travers was born of Irish descent in the outback of Australia in 1899. Early in life, she became aware of her gift of storytelling and would entertain her brother and sisters with tales that she created. After a brief career on the stage in Sydney, she went to Ireland, where she wrote for the Irish Statesman and befriended A. E. (George Russell), the famous Irish poet and Theosophist. She became an intimate part of a literary circle composed of W. B. Yeats, Padraic Colum, James Stephens, Lady Gregory, George Bernard Shaw, and others. Later she moved to England and wrote for the New English Weekly. There her circle of friends expanded to include A. R. Orage, P. D. Ouspensky and G. I. Gurdjieff. Meanwhile, W. B. Yeats translated the Upanishads, which was to have a profound influence on Travers, as did Hindu mythology and Buddhism, the lore of the Navajo Indians, and Jungian psychology. Travers wrote numerous poems and articles for well-known journals (later in life, she wrote mainly Jungian articles for Parabola magazine) as well as books, among which are seven Mary Poppins stories produced between 1934 and 1988.
The Meaning of Paradox
Mary Poppins, one could say, resembles a guardian angel, daimon, or cosmic being who comes from time to time to visit Earth. She never settles with the Banks family for very long, but while she is there, she teaches the family, primarily the children, about the deeper meaning of life. She does this through magical outings with the children during the day or at night when the children dream or wake up and seem to leave their room. Joseph Campbell wrote that we must follow our bliss and that to do this, we must put ourself at risk and doors will open. In the Mary Poppins stories, the children follow their bliss, always putting themselves seemingly at risk, and the universe opens for them and, vicariously, for us.
What intrigues me is the interpretation of these adventures. Their meaning is embedded in paradox, like a Zen koan or the wonderful stories of the Upanishads, part of the sacred mythology of India. Rohit Mehta, the Indian and Theosophical scholar, writes in The Call of the Upanishads that “A paradox is the placing of two opposites in juxtaposition. There is no solution to a paradox, a paradox can only be resolved or more truly dissolved” (p.12). Mehta explains that to reconcile a paradox, we must see the two opposites existing in the same place and at the same time. Since the human mind cannot conceive of this, he says, we finally reach a field of nothingness because the two opposites have canceled each other out, leaving nothing. “It is out of this nothingness, out of this negativity that a positive experience is born” and we are able to reconcile the opposites. Again and again in Mary Poppins, Travers asks the question: What will the resolution be when the opposites meet?
The Symbolism of the East Wind
The first chapter of the Mary Poppins series, “East Wind,” explains how she arrives at number seventeen Cherry Tree Lane. Mary Poppins first appears as a shape, “tossed and bent under the wind.” Two of the Banks children, Jane and Michael, notice that the shape is carried by the air and flung at the gate, then lifted by the wind and carried to the front door. Later, Michael Banks says to Mary Poppins, “You’ll never leave us, will you?” Mary Poppins replies, “I’ll stay till the wind changes.” In other stories, she descends from the sky riding a kite or her parrot-headed umbrella.
What is the significance of the sky and wind bringing Mary Poppins to Cherry Tree Lane and determining the duration of her sojourn there? This reference is reminiscent of a passage from The Voice of the Silence by H. P. Blavatsky, a treatise derived from The Book of the Golden Precepts, studied by mystical students in the East. In fragment forty, the text says, “’Tis only then thou canst become a ‘Walker of the Sky’ who treads the winds above the waves, whose step touches not the waters”(p. 9). The glossary excerpt for this fragment refers to this siddhi, or spiritual power, as being a “sky-walker” wherein “the body of the yogi becomes as one formed of the wind; as a cloud from which limbs have sprouted out,” after which the yogi “beholds the things beyond the seas and stars; he hears the language of the devas and comprehends it and perceives what is passing in the mind of the ant” (p. 77). Known as the Great Exception, this aptly describes the powers of Mary Poppins, meaning in this context that she has gone beyond the evolution of humanity and her life now stands in contrast to those who have not yet reached this stage.
Discerning the Nature of Free Will
In the chapter entitled, “John and Barbara’s Story,” a starling, a wise bird, visits the nursery at Cherry Tree Lane and communes with Mary Poppins and the babies, John and Barbara. Through their conversation, we become aware that the babies, the starling, and Mary Poppins understand the language of the wind, the stars, and the sunlight. However, the starling laments that the children will soon forget everything about where they came from. The children, of course, vehemently protest. Soon, however, they do forget.
This theme is explored further in the chapter entitled, “The New One” in Mary Poppins Comes Back. When the baby Annabel is born, the starling makes another visit, and he turns somersaults on the windowsill, clapping his wings wildly together each time his head comes up. “What a treat!” he pants, when at last he stands up straight. (Now he had someone to whom he could speak again.) The starling asks Annabel to tell the fledgling that accompanies him to tell where she came from:
“I am earth and air and fire and water,” she said softly. “ I come from the Dark where all things have their beginnings. I come from the sea and its tides, I come from the sky and its stars, I come from the sun and its brightness—and I come from the forest of earth. Slowly, I moved at first always sleeping and dreaming. I remembered all I had been and I thought of all I shall be. And when I had dreamed my dream I awoke and came swiftly. I heard the stars singing as I came and I felt warm wings about me. I passed the beasts of the jungle and came through the dark, deep waters.” “It was a long journey! A long journey indeed!” said the starling softly, lifting his head from his breast. “And ah, so soon forgotten!”
This episode is reminiscent of the soul’s encounter with the river Lethe in Greek mythology. The souls of the dead bathe there before they are born, so they will not remember their previous history and choices made before birth (karma) until their life is over. If we knew what happened in past lives with the people we know in the present, we might avoid these people and many of life’s experiences. How can we operate with free will and choice if we know our sacred contracts, asks Caroline Myss, author of Sacred Contracts. In The Secrets of Dr. Traverner, Diane Fortune, the occult fiction writer of the early twentieth century, wrote about a character who refused to come completely into her body because she knew her fate and was afraid to face it. This presents the paradox that from ignorance we exercise free will; from knowledge we forfeit our right to choose.
Exploring Moon Magic at the Zoo
One day Michael mentions to Mary Poppins that he wonders what happens at the zoo at night. After the children are put in bed that night, a disembodied voice calls to Michael and Jane and tells them to get dressed and leads them to the zoo. There everything is the opposite of the usual: the animals run the zoo, the people are in cages, and all of the animals coexist in perfect accord. Although the lion that the children encounter says that he is the king, the real king is a hamadryad, a huge hooded snake that Mary Poppins calls “cousin.” This evening is an occasion for the meeting and the resolution of opposites, ostensibly because Mary Poppins’s birthday fell on the full moon. The climax of the activity was the grand chain when all of the animals circle around Mary Poppins in dance. The hamadryad escorts the children to the dance, and he gives Mary Poppins a snakeskin as her birthday present. The next day, she wears it as a belt, proving to the children that the adventure was real.
What lesson was Travers trying to convey with this story? The idea of rebirth may be demonstrated by the imagery of both the moon and the serpent, the former having phases and the latter shedding its skin. The moon dies with each cycle and is resurrected anew. The snake sheds its skin and is renewed as life is renewed by the progeny of each generation.
Another aspect of the story is reflected in Mary Poppins calling the hamadryad “cousin.” Heinrich Zimmer, the great German scholar of Eastern religions and their iconography, explains that in South India, a nagini or naga (snake deity) in the family tree gives it greater importance. It is believed in Indian mythology that nagas are genii, guardian spirits, considered to be superior to humans, and they are renowned for their cleverness and charm. They traditionally wear a precious jewel in their heads, and they dwell in resplendent palaces studded with gems and pearls at the bottoms of rivers, lakes, and seas. They are the keepers of the life energy, he says, that is stored in the earthly waters of springs, wells, and ponds as well as being the guardians of the riches of the deep sea: corals, shells, and pearls.
The story of Nagarjuna is a favorite of both Heinrich Zimmer and the noted Theosophist Joy Mills. When the Buddha began teaching his doctrine of nirvana, he soon realized that humankind was not prepared to fully accept his doctrine of the void. They shrank from the implications of his vision. Therefore, he entrusted the deeper interpretation of his doctrines to the nagas, who were told to safeguard it until people were ready to understand. It wasn’t until seven centuries had passed that the great sage Nagarjuna, Arjuna of the Nagas, was born. He was initiated by the serpent kings into the “truth that all is void.” He brought to humanity the full-fledged Buddhist teachings of the Mahayana which illustrate the paradox of emptiness being full and fullness being empty.
Buddhist scholar Malcolm David Eckel says that the verses of Nagarjuna can be interpreted to mean that emptiness is a state of awareness, not just a state of being. However, a most intriguing resolution was demonstrated by Don Campbell, author of The Mozart Effect, at the Theosophical Society in the Ojai Valley. He filled a metal cup with miscellaneous objects from his pocket and then hit it with a gong. The resulting sound was faint and muffled. When he hit the empty cup with the gong, the sound that resulted was a beautiful and melodious chime.
Discovering the Magic of the Sun
In “The Evening Out,” Jane and Michael are able to walk in the sky, where they are invited to a heavenly circus, the polar opposite of the earthly circus at the zoo. Here the animals are the constellations and the circus master is the sun. Instead of dancing the grand chain, the animals dance the “Dance of the Wheeling Sky,” apparently all in honor of Mary Poppins’s evening out. Michael is given the moon to hold, presumably because he had asked for it earlier during the day. When it begins to wane and shrink in size, Michael says to the sun,
“It couldn’t have been a real moon, could it?” The sun replies, “What is real and what is not? Can you tell me or I you? Perhaps we shall never know more than this: that to think a thing is to make it true.” And so, if Michael thought he had the Moon in his arms—why, then, he had indeed. “Then,” said Jane wonderingly, “is it true that we are here tonight or do we only think we are?” The Sun smiled again, a little sadly. “Child,” he said, “seek no further! From the beginning of the world all men have asked that question. And I, who am Lord of the Sky—even I do not know the answer!”
Joseph Campbell in his elegant prose describes this situation of the sun being all light without darkness, containing only the shadows of those who do not open to the light:
What we all want surely, is to know the truth, even though its full knowledge may come only with the dissolution or stilling of the activity of the world. And so, whereas we have a deluding creation, maya [illusion] on the one hand, we have an illuminating destruction on the other, and between the two flows the enigma of the universe (p.264).
This story is also reminiscent of the paradoxical iconography of the Hindu deity Shiva. He is surrounded by circles of flame, rings of fire representing the sun. Shiva’s dance is the universe. A skull and a new moon--death and rebirth at the same moment, the moment of becoming-- adorn his hair. In one hand, Shiva holds a little drum that goes tick-tick-tick. That is the drum of time, the tick of time that shuts out the knowledge of eternity. We are enclosed in time. But in Shiva’s opposite hand is a flame that burns away the veil of time (the veil of maya), and opens our minds to eternity (truth).
Finding One’s Shadow on Hallowe’en
In Mary Poppins in the Park, the last chapter is called “Hallowe’en.” The events of the day foreshadow the events of the evening. Mrs. Corry, a friend of Mary Poppins, accuses Michael and Jane of stepping on her shadow. Jane tells Mrs. Corry that she didn’t think that shadows could feel. Mrs. Corry replies that this is nonsense and that shadows feel twice as much as we do. She warns the children to take care of their shadows or their shadows won’t take care of them. Finally, she asks them how they would like to find out that their shadows had run away. “And what’s a man without a shadow? Practically nothing, you might say!”
Much later, Michael arouses Jane during the night because he woke up and saw their shadows outside the house. They leave their bedroom and follow their shadows. When they finally catch up, Jane asks, “Why did you run away?” The shadows reply that it is Halloween, the night when every shadow is free. Also, this is a very special occasion—there is a full moon and it has fallen on the Birthday Eve (Mary Poppins’ birthday, of course). The two shadows flit away with the children not far behind, on their way to the park for the party.
This episode brings to mind a passage in The Sorcerers’ Crossing: A Woman’s Journey by Taisha Abelar. She was a student of Carlos Castaneda and gives us a glimpse of the American Indian perspective of the shadow. Since Travers had been initiated into the Navajo mysteries and given a secret name, this knowledge was hers also:
“I have news for you,” Clara continued. “You’ve seen shadows move before as a child, but then you were not yet rational so it was all right to see them move. As you grew up, your energy was harnessed by social constraints, and so you forgot you had seen them moving, and only remember what you think is permissible to remember” (p.74).
At the party, the children have a conversation with the Bird Woman regarding the nature of shadows. Jane says that shadows aren’t real because they go through things and that they are made of nothing. The Bird Woman responds, “Nothin’s made of nothin’, lovey. And that’s what they’re for—to go through things. Through and out on the other side—it’s the way they get to be wise. You take my word for it, my loves, when you know what your shadder knows—then you know a lot. Your shadder’s the other part of you, the outside of your inside—if you understand what I mean.”
During the party, in further conversation with the Bird Woman, the children ask her why Mary Poppins’s shadow and that of Mrs. Corry were not free like the others. The Bird Woman replies that Mrs. Corry was old and that she had learned a lot. “Let ’er shadder escape—not she. And as for Mary Poppins’ shadder—It wouldn’t leave’ er if you paid it—not for a thousand pound!”
Once we acknowledge our shadows and cease to lie to ourselves about who we are, we will have the greatest protection against evil. Then we will be able to utilize the creative energies of the shadow to assist us on our journey toward individuation. Carl Jung said that our first contact with the unconscious is always with the shadow. From the perspective of Jungian psychology, the shadow is the part of ourselves that is unknown, a paradox in itself. How can a part of ourselves be unknown to us? To become whole and fully conscious, we must integrate our unknown self, our shadow, with our conscious selves. To do this, we must search for clues in the secret recesses of our being—our deepest desires and our greatest fears. We must analyze the reasons for our mirth, our sadness, our illnesses, and our addictions and address those parts of us, however unpleasant or diminishing they may be to our persona, the face we present to the world. There is a positive aspect to this investigation, say Connie Zweig and Steve Wolf in Romancing the Shadow: “The shadow reveals its gold in creative works, which build bridges between the conscious and unconscious worlds” (p. 41).
To express the inexpressible in a form both enjoyable and meaningful was Travers’s task. We are both entertained and prodded to look within while following the adventures of her famous nanny, Mary Poppins, and the Banks children. If we are successful in decoding the messages, perhaps for a brief moment we can still the cacophony of voices in our mind to hear the truth. [1]
Presented by Rachael Kohn on Wednesday 07/05/2003
The Mystic Life of P.L. Travers
Summary:
Like the Mary Poppins character she created, Australian writer Pamela Travers had a mysterious side. She was a devotee of the Armenian mystic Gurdjieff and in 1976 became the founding editor of the quarterly new age journal Parabola.
Details or Transcript:
Rachael Kohn: She came out of the sky, parasol in hand, to bring order into the Banks’ household.
Hello, this is The Ark and I’m Rachael Kohn.
Mary Poppins was the perfect nanny, but where did she come from? It seems the author, P.L. Travers, was as keen to keep that a secret as she was to shroud her own origins in mystery. So it comes as a surprise that Travers was Australian, and her love of the starry nights of the outback provide a clue to her life-long spiritual quest.
As Valerie Lawson, her biographer, explains.
Valerie Lawson: I was amazed myself, I discovered this in the late ‘80s. Nobody still knows, and when I tell people I wrote this book about the Australian author of Mary Poppins, they still are amazed about it. Yes, she was a stargazer as a little girl, because her father was a stargazer and they used to lie in the garden in Allora, which is a little town near Toowoomba, and look at the stars, and he would tell her the meaning of all the stars, their real names, the constellations’ names and so on.
Rachael Kohn: So I guess it was inevitable she’d create a character that came out of the sky.
Valerie Lawson: I think that’s right. Although it probably went into her subconscious for quite a long time. But her father died when she was very young, only seven, and so she imagined him later when she was 13 as if he’d turned into a star. So that was the beginning I think of the woman, Mary Poppins, that came out of the sky.
Rachael Kohn: Now Mary Poppins is something of an authoritative figure. She has all the right kinds of things to say, she’s pernickety, but also potentially lovable. Is she something of a kind of archetypal woman?
Valerie Lawson: Well she is. Certainly Pamela grew to think of her that way. I think initially she was just a mysterious woman that came and made sense of the Banks household, because it was always slightly chaotic. But gradually she came to resemble, or to represent more and more even to represent Mary, Mary Magdalene I mean, Zen Buddhist creatures, yes Pamela spun incredible stories about who she might be, the older she got and the more she met gurus in her own life.
Rachael Kohn: Indeed. Well P.L. Travers, which wasn’t her real name, was originally a journalist, but she went to London and fell into the most extraordinary esoteric group. Tell us about some of the people who had an impact on her.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, her real name was Helen Lyndon Goff, by the way. She took Pamela as a stage name because after she was a writer, she became an actor and a dancer, and she thought Pamela was a sort of sweet, flowing kind of name, which it is. But she went to London when she was still a young woman, and the first person that influenced her deeply was a man called George William Russell, a writer.
Rachael Kohn: A famous poet.
Valerie Lawson: And a famous poet, and a very good friend of the poet Yeats, and Yeats and Russell had met at the Dublin Theosophical Society and conducted experiments into the occult, and held séances. So that was Pamela’s introduction to that kind of world.
Rachael Kohn: Didn’t he also introduce her to Gurdjieff?
Valerie Lawson: Well that was Orage. You see, all these extraordinary people in Pamela’s life. First of all, Russell, then Yeats, who both liked her very much, in fact I think she was Russell’s lover. But then it was Russell that introduced her to Alfred Orage who was the author, an editor, and it was Orage that introduced her finally to Gurdjieff In 1938.
Rachael Kohn: So Orage was actually one of the disciples of Gurdjieff, the Russian-Armenian who had an enormous influence.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, he was an incredibly influential figure, especially with artistic people. So other disciples of Gurdjieff were Frank Lloyd-Wright, Lincoln Kirstein, who was George Balanchine’s financial backer, and many, many artists and poets and writers, especially rich ones, because Gurdjieff liked to what he called ‘fleece’ them, fleece his sheep; he’d like to get the money from those people. And Pamela was one of those adherents, disciples.
Rachael Kohn: Now do some of his ideas work their way into her story, her account of Mary Poppins? I was wondering for example, her own penchant for not explaining, which was something Gurdjieff was also inclined to do, he would not explain things, he would just give the sort of instructions.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, Mary Poppins would never explain. She was very, very cross and strict with the Banks children if they said, ‘Where do you go to? When are you coming back?’ Because children need to know where the people that they love are gone. It’s terrifying if Mummy just disappears, and she was their surrogate mother. But it wasn’t until the 1950s that in 'Mary Poppins in the Park', that was the book that came out then, that was one of six major Poppins books, that Mary Poppins took a more mystical, ‘Don’t explain’ character. That’s because Pamela was more and more involved in Gurdjieff circles by then in New York as well as in Europe. But it was more Pamela’s own self rather than Mary Poppins became a kind of sub-Gurdjieffian character. He especially by the time the film came out in the early ‘60s, people would say, ‘Well tell me about yourself, tell me where did you come from, Pamela Travers’, and she said, ‘I won’t explain, I never, never talk about myself’, and she held to that right till the end. I had one letter from her myself, before she died. And she said ‘You can ask me anything you like about my work, but I’ll never talk about myself.’
Rachael Kohn: Do you think she was embarrassed about being Australian, from this far-flung place, far away from where the action was?
Valerie Lawson: Yes well to be Australian in London in the ‘20s and ‘30s and even up till the ‘50s and ‘60s, wasn’t really very good, in her view. So she would hide that, very much hide it. She was ashamed of being Australian actually. Now her son tells me she wasn’t, but I’m convinced she was, because in America when she was lecturing in the ‘60s, the colleges she was lecturing in asked in advance for her details of where she was born, and she would say, ‘I was born in the British Commonwealth’ or ‘the British Empire’. Not in Australia. It could have been anywhere, it could have been Canada. Even her passport was quite hazy about where she was actually born, which was Maryborough in Queensland, a lovely little town, but she would never explain. So that goes back to that Gurchievian thing, ‘Never tell anybody any details of where you came from, who your parents were, where you live, are you married, you know, who your children are. Nothing.’
Rachael Kohn: Well you mentioned her son. She wasn’t married and she had adopted this boy, which is interesting because she was in so many ways a solitary figure. One wonders whether she could ever really properly mother this child.
Valerie Lawson: Yes she was quite late in her ‘30s, and she knew she wasn’t going to get married I think, and certainly time was running out to have a baby, so she was living in London then, but went back to that Irish connection, and she was in touch with the son of Yeats’ biographer, Joseph Hone, an Irish writer, and it was Joseph Hone’s grandson that she adopted, Camillus was his name, and he had a twin. She consulted an astrologer about which twin she should adopt. If she’d take the other one, Anthony was his name, he was the sweet, non-crying one, so she was quite perverse in that way and she said, ‘No, I’ll take the noisy crying one.’ And she actually went to Dublin on the ferry from England, brought him home, raised him, and it wasn’t until he was 17 that he found out he was a twin and he was adopted, and he found out not from his adopted mother, but from his own twin. They met in London because the twin knew, and he’d gone searching for his brother, but Camillus did not know, and really never forgave his mother for that.
Rachael Kohn: Valerie, your book reveals Travers’ rather difficult friendships with women, one of whom was the wife of Alfred Orage, Jessie Orage, who introduced her to another esoteric community in New Mexico. Travers always seemed to be on the move, searching for something.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, well in my view she was searching for Mr Banks, Mr Banks being the husband, the father, in the Mary Poppins books. He was in some ways a quite withdrawn figure, worked in a bank.
Rachael Kohn: Well didn’t her father work in a bank?
Valerie Lawson: In fact her father did work in a bank, in the Australian Joint Stock Bank in Maryborough, yes, so that was why the Mary Poppins father-figure was Mr Banks, as in Mr Banker. There were a series of Mr Bankses in her life, among them Russell, Yeats, Gurdjieff, and later Krishnamurti, the Indian guru. But she was always searching for something else, partly because she was extremely anxious, I think the travel calmed her anxiety, but her New Mexico adventure was amazing.
That was in the 1940s at the end of the Second World War. Jessie Orage introduced her to a whole group of people there, Mabel Luhan, who was like a presiding spirit of Taos, who lived next to a pueblo, so she got to know the ways of the Navajo there. From there she adopted silver bangles, coral, jade, amazing turquoise jewellery, which she wore for the rest of her life till she was in her ‘90s, when she died. I think there was a sort of a lesbian relationship at that time in her life.
She kept diaries at that time, but unfortunately for a biographer at the critical point where she was about to reveal much more about that relationship, the pages were torn out of her diary, and there was an enormous fight with Jessie Orage, which involved a woman that Pamela was living with at the time, as well. So yes, strange relationships then.
Rachael Kohn: Well certainly Travers had a penchant for being unhappy or dissatisfied, there was something missing. And yet in so many ways she was a very fortunate person, a lucky person. I mean here was this book about a nanny that was snapped up by Hollywood, turned out to be extremely successful and provided a lot of money for her, and even later in her life, she was virtually handed the editorship of a journal, Parabola, that’s still being published today.
Valerie Lawson: It all goes back to her childhood, as it always does with everybody, doesn’t it? I mean the fact that her father died when she was seven, and her mother died when she was, her mother was in her 50s, but Pamela was in her 20s, she felt very much alone. She did not make friends very easily, but I don’t want to make out that she was always miserable. When she was in middle age, she was quite a charming and lively person, because the actress in her would come out. She’d been an actor, as I said earlier on. It wasn’t until she became a guru herself after Gurdjieff died, that she became a rather self-important, morose kind of Pamela.
Ark Yes, well it’s quite painful to read your account of her address to the New York Public Library, rather late in life when she decides to donate some trinkets that were quite important in her life. And one had a sense of a haunted person, quite alone.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, she gave away some treasures, like a little hen. She used to collect hens, because as a child she used to sit in the grass outside, dreaming, and he mother would say, ‘Don’t sit like that, you look a hen sitting on your eggs.’ And she said, ‘That’s what I’m doing.’ So she then collected pottery and china hens, and she gave away little things she’d won at fairgrounds and treasures that she loved, that did make an appearance in the Mary Poppins books, like a Royal Doulton plate, and it was like giving away your last things, saying ‘This is me now, I’ve shed that and these will be here for you to look at after I die.’ In fact they’re still in the New York Public Library those little mementoes.
Rachael Kohn: Well she had hoped also to be memorialised in Central Park, but that didn’t work.
Valerie Lawson: No, there was a public subscription for raising money for a statue there, drawings were done, two beautiful drawings, but not enough money was raised, which was odd, because it was after the Mary Poppins movie, so it was quite a well-known thing. But funnily enough, all these years later, the Ashfield Council is raising money for a Mary Poppins sculpture, and because she lived briefly in Ashfield, Sydney. And Maryborough is raising money for a sculpture, and there’s already a plaque on the wall of the building she was born in, in Maryborough. So it’s as if, and I don’t think Pamela would be too happy about this, we’ve sort of reclaimed her, saying OK, you can come back now and be honoured here in Australia, which I don’t know whether she would have liked that or not actually. But the sculptures are here, or are going to be here.
Rachael Kohn: How interesting. Well she lived a very long life.
Valerie Lawson: Yes, she lived till 96.
Rachael Kohn: What was it like going to her last dwelling, her house in London?
Valerie Lawson: Well that was magical, absolutely magical, because she lived in a little street in Chelsea where it’s Georgian houses, but the terrace houses, and every door is painted sort of grey or royal blue or quite sedate. But her door was a sort of shocking, lolly pink colour. And I thought Mary Poppins was going to arrive. But I knocked on the door, and no-one was there; I was very relieved to find that actually the first time I tried because I didn’t really want anyone to be there. But later I met her son there, and her son was incredibly generous to me and let me go up to her study, studio on the top floor, where I just sat for days and went through all her papers, and played her Gurdjieff music on a long-playing record player, and it was very calming.
THEME
Rachael Kohn: The book is Out of the Sky She Came, by Valerie Lawson. And a documentary based on the book will be shown at the Sydney Writers’ Festival on May 23rd.
Next week on The Ark at this time, we go to India where the ‘sacred cow’ is being challenged. An historian has just revealed that Hindus were beefeaters. It’s Unholy Cow, next week on The Ark, with me, Rachael Kohn.
THEME
Guests on this program:
Valerie Lawson is an author and journalist with the Sydney Morning Herald.[2]
